EP. 4 - "BROKEN BOUNDARIES: TOXIC RELATIONSHIPS" with guest, Elizabeth Notestine -- a FIERCE mental health advocate, NoStigmas Trauma-Aware Workshop co-creator, and survivor of intimate partner violence
Join the conversation as our own Lance talks with Elizabeth about her lived experience with intimate partner violence as a teenager, and how that impacted her mental health and development as a young adult.
[TRIGGER WARNING: We will be talking about partner abuse]
While she has years of experience sharing her story, it never gets easy. She hopes sharing this story will give those struggling in silence hope and courage. Her story is a tangible testament to her dedication to advocacy for not only mental health, but trauma-aware relationships and connections, built on trust and understanding.
Be sure to tune in right here every Wednesday at 2 PM Eastern for more REAL talk with REAL people. You can also visit nostigmas.org/unsilent to watch, listen to, and read all of our conversations this season.
We are survivors, thrivers, advocates, and Allies. We see you. We love you. BE UNSILENT 💚
SHOW NOTES:
Elizabeth:
Even though I was still going through the motions of finding things that I love, like, I was in choir that was when I discovered jazz, and I was in a lot of theater and musicals, and it- quick side tangent, that was actually one of the only times that I felt like I was Elizabeth.
Lance:
Wow.
Elizabeth:
And I felt safe, because if I was on stage and people were looking at me, he couldn't do anything.
Eli:
This is Unsilent, a Speak series from NoStigmas that champions mental health advocacy and challenges the stigmas that prevent people from getting the help they need. I'm Eli Lawson, a producer for the show. This week, NoStigmas’ very own Lance Bordelon will be having a conversation with Elizabeth, one of NoStigmas’ earliest members and longtime ally/advocate. We’ll dive into Elizabeth’s memories of intimate partner violence and encounter the traumatizing effects of broken boundaries. But we'll also hear about Elizabeth's path to recovery and how her experience helped her become an advocate for IPV survivors and shed light on the dark tactics of manipulative people. Thank you for being here. If you want to learn more, or contact us, visit nostigmas.org. Don't face it alone. Be Unsilent.
This week's episode contains various mentions of intimate partner violence, self harm, and suicidal idealization. While the content isn't very explicit in itself, it could be triggering for some listeners. It's okay if you need to skip this one. Do what's right for you.
Lance:
What would be a good baseline definition to understand, what is a toxic relationship? And then we can go into some other areas of that.
Elizabeth:
Yeah, I mean, I look at toxic relationships and, really, we don't want to candy coat it. A toxic relationship, in some way is also intimate partner violence. As defined by the CDC, intimate partner violence is physical, psychological abuse, aggression, within an intimate relationship. And it's not just limited to spouses, so it can be people you're dating, just casually seeing, a former spouse. And when I say toxic, I mean it's like, the things that your body usually tells you a signal that’s like this is not right. Like the feeling of, I don't really like being spoken to like that, or that was actually really painful, or I didn't like that they did that to me in public. I know for me, humiliation and control was a big thing in social settings. Not having been in a romantic relationship until I was just starting high school, just like a lot of people, we don't have too many guideposts of how things are done or what it's supposed to feel like. We have these romanticized ideas but when you're actually in it, it's a really big developmental time. So while I had this really strong, moral compass and voice inside of me, that was recognizing some grooming things and things that didn't feel so good, I really believed the abuser when they said you're being too sensitive. Or this isn’t abuse, you don't know what abuse is. So this idea of the perfect relationship and what it was like was totally shattered in my mind. I thought, well, maybe this is the real world and this is the way.
Lance:
Yeah, like, this is how it is.
Elizabeth:
Exactly, I just washed that voice down and didn't really listen to her.
Lance:
Can you take us into, as much as you're comfortable with sharing, what happened to you? What actually took you to these places?
Elizabeth:
Yeah. Well, like I said before, it really started off as these small, tiny things. And whether or not the abuser actually even recognized that that's what he was doing, he was. People who utilize abusive techniques and whatever, when it's starting off small levels, I'm not even sure people are totally aware of it. It's what they were modeled. It's what worked on them. So it perpetuates that cycle. And because I was kind of thrown into this relationship very early on as a freshman-
Lance:
So we’re talking first year of high school.
Elizabeth:
Yeah. Freshman year.
Lance:
So we are you in your first year of high school?
Elizabeth:
Yes, so it's like Elizabeth in freshman year in high school, and just had this very Disney-like relationship with what love was supposed to be. So, I guess the best way to describe what the relationship looked like for me, especially in the beginning, was a lot of gaslighting, a lot of that slow grooming.
Lance:
So can you just tell us what is gaslighting?
Elizabeth:
Yeah, so gaslighting is when you have your understanding of the reality of a situation, something you said, something that happened. And then somebody's saying, no, that's not it at all, you're crazy. Or trying to undermine your truth or your reality. So then, eventually, it kind of conditions you to not trust your sense of reality, and you get a little bit untethered, ungrounded. And ultimately when that type of gaslighting happens, it grooms you to trust what that person is saying over your own experience. It started off with holding my hand and squeezing too hard or not letting me go from a hug. Things like that were eventually then more blatant forms of physical abuse and then ultimately sexual abuse. I was dissociating already from it, or feeling like I didn't have enough control, or ability to restore strength because I just shut down. Because he was very charming, very social, very charismatic, so people were yielding to his idea of the truth.
Lance:
How long did it take you to find your way out of that? And how did you find your way out of that relationship?
Elizabeth:
It was really the full four years of high school. I was really going in between this autopilot shell-of-a-person place, and then lashing out like at my family, at my parents or being really upset because these things were happening to me, and it didn't line up with how I envisioned high school. At that time in your life, everyone's like, it's the best years of your life, and nobody looks back and says these were the best years of our lives. Even though I was still going through the motions of finding things that I love, like, I was in choir that was when I discovered jazz, and I was in a lot of theater and musicals, and it- quick side tangent, that was actually one of the only times that I felt like I was Elizabeth.
Lance:
Wow.
Elizabeth:
And I felt safe, because if I was on stage and people were looking at me, he couldn't do anything. It ultimately got to the point where I began fearing for my life with the threats and with the type of physical and sexual abuse. It was getting to be enough to potentially hospitalized me. I was really fortunate that I never actually had major injuries that were life threatening. But there's a theme of stairwells. At one point he pushed me down a flight of stairs and I had this moment of sobriety to say, I really could have broken my neck. I could have died, I could have been paralyzed. I cannot believe this is happening.
I think the most important part of that story actually is that I ran up the stairs and got into a hallway, this was at the school, and there was a teacher who was working after hours and she had her door open and she poked her head out because I was yelling at him to get away. And I was clutching my hip because I had fallen on my hip and I was clearly a mass and I was already sobbing. And she could have been an ally. She could have been someone who tried to help. But she just stuck her head out and said, you need to sort this out. And she shut the door in my face. To the best of my knowledge. I know that at some point in my senior year, I had the light-at-the-end-of-the-tunnel of graduation and I knew that I was going to a music school in a different state after I graduated. And that was just enough hope for me to start advocating for myself. And we were actually both in the same spring musical. And I advocated for myself. I was the lead and he was an ensemble member. He had started stalking me to my car. I almost ran over him with my car at one point. I mean it was like the threats and everything were getting so serious, I was like, I could kill this person. Knowing that I had the spring musical, I said, he's got to go. I went to my school and I said, this is happening, I need help. They did the whole victim blaming thing and they said if you don't want to be around him, you can't go to the choir and you can't go to the class and I started to just get that fire in me to be like, No, there's more to life than this, and I have to start saying something or else I'm going to die one way or another. I'm either going to take my own life or I'm going to be behind bars or this person is going to kill me.
So I think the climax of it was at some point in my senior year. I was hospitalized at an adolescent psychiatric hospital. And I went there not even really believing that I was suicidal. But I had told my parents because they knew something was wrong. And so after an episode of me trying to jump out of the car on the highway, they were like yeah, we think that you should be checked in and be in a secure place and start to work out whatever you need to. And I was like great because I can take one more day of this, not realizing that that was suicidal.
Eli:
If you or someone you know is experiencing a crisis, please call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 1-800-273-8255 or visit suicidepreventionlifeline.org for support via live chat. If you or someone you know is in immediate danger, please call 911. Other resources are linked in the show notes.
Elizabeth:
When I got back to school, I knew it was going to be really bad for me, because I went away and maybe I told someone what was going on. And not having that control as an abuser is not cool because they want to control everything and manipulate it. And that put him in a very vulnerable position. So that I think was a big turning point for me because it was kind of now or never to start doing something about this. And also realizing that going and being hospitalized, just the act of doing that, I had to look at the reality that something is really not okay here. I guess what the Instagram of my time was, the social perception of things. Yeah, I absolutely appeared like I was having this great life and I was like an aspiring singer. I was talented. I had a lot of stuff going for me. So I was in the social field of both being this attractive kind of popular person, but then also people not really understanding that I was showing signs. I was the crying girl in the hall. I was someone who was constantly wearing long sleeves and covering up things or not wanting to hug. Things that if a friend saw someone posting something, or they looked uncomfortable, or they said something, I think it's just always a good idea to err on the side of caution and say, how are you really feeling about that?
Lance:
What would you say and how would you set up this next generation that you see, to understand what is a healthy relationship is. Where should we not deviate? Where should we not settle? Where should we not doubt ourselves? What are those pillars that you have found that guide what is a healthy relationship now?
Elizabeth:
Yeah, I really believe we all have that voice inside of us. that gut feeling. that intuition, instinct, whatever it is, and that should be listened to above all else. I think there was a fear for me of coming forward and saying something and having people not believe me or think, oh, you're being dramatic, it's not that bad. It’s hard when you don't diversify your support, and I even find myself in that now. I'm in a wonderful, very supportive, healthy relationship and marriage, which I never thought was going to be a thing for me. I didn’t think I was ever going to be able to have sex again or I have a relationship with intimacy that was anything other than terrified, numbed-out, used for the wrong reasons, or as a tactic of control.
Lance:
Well yeah, you've had this trust just demolished. In trusting people, trusting yourself.
Elizabeth:
I ultimately was really fortunate to find partners, being in long term relationships where I was able to open up with people and let them know, hey, here's kind of where I'm at. And it's sometimes inconsistent and sometimes it is going to really change whether or not I'm feeling triggered, or something will surface, and here's how to communicate with me, and here's how I'm learning to communicate. It took a long time for me to not blame people.
Lance:
Yeah, of course.
Elizabeth:
Or for me to feel valued or seen. I can't imagine someone coming up to me and saying, hey, this person is raping me on a consistent basis. It's on the property or school. All of this stuff is happening. I'm trying to get a restraining order for them to-
Lance:
To not do anything.
Elizabeth:
Too bad, you know. And to show them painful bruises and to say this is happening and for them to not respond with immediacy, I was floored. But what I would say now is I think people can only do the best with the information and awareness that they have at the time. It's really why NoStigmas and our trainings are so important. Because programs that are teaching, here's how to handle a situation. Here's how to recognize signs of abuse or toxic relationships, sexual harassment, assault, whatever it is, whatever topic it is. To actually have some dedicated time to give those people, one, a chance to just chill out for a moment and come back to why they do this.
Lance:
How does that all connect and how can we be allies and advocates for trauma?
Elizabeth:
I think a lot of it starts with the language we use and how we start off a conversation with someone. Consent-based practices are really important to me as well as asking permission for things. That's why I say the trainings and whatnot are so important. It’s because we can all read a pamphlet that says, look out for these signs, but when we actually are modeling the behavior of asking like, hey, is this an okay time to talk about what happened at dinner the other night? Or hey, what headspace are you in? Are you able to help me brainstorm something? And that's something I practice with my husband a lot, because sometimes I'll just emotionally offload and he's not in the place to really be able to support me and then I feel hurt, you know?
Lance:
One thing was like, man, that's relatable content. And the other side of my brain said, I think I've been both of those people in that situation.
Elizabeth:
Well because it feels really overwhelming and sometimes almost violating when you have a friend who's just like, blah blah blah. And it’s like, you have no idea what my day is right now. Maybe we can just start off a conversation in a more like tender way. To get where that person is at and then that opens the door for support. So how can we come to an understanding? Healthy communication.
Lance:
What would you say would be, this needs to stop. Like, this point of view needs to stop because this is, in some way, harming children and young adults in irreparable ways, like, this has to stop. What would you say that is?
Elizabeth:
I think it's victim blaming and punishment that has got to be the biggest stigma. And I think people need to answer for their actions. I am not saying that there are not people who lie about their experiences, but I think that we need to do a due diligence in believing people, and then finding out the truth. I know what Me Too movements and things, people were kind of up in arms and thinking, well, this person is just trying to get a settlement or they're just trying to hurt this person.
Lance:
Right. And a lot of people at the same time- I listened to some different really strong female voices and authors, and it's like, be mindful of not, you know, thinking like every single CEO is out to get every other person. It's like, be mindful that there are good people still. The world is not full of only that. It's not, and to your point, some people may not be telling that story accurately, but at the same time, not everybody's out to get you. You know that there are good people, there are allies in spaces that you don't know. They may look just like the bad person but just on the surface.
Elizabeth:
We still have to utilize critical thinking and be human beings about it. So I like to err on the side of caution. If someone tells me something, I believe it. And, whether or not I know anything beyond that, is no longer my story. So I feel like there's a lot of power in storytelling and a big part of me taking so long in sharing my story was, I was afraid I wasn't going to believed. Because I had people who didn't believe me. Or even when I started sharing with some friends or partners, of like hey, this happened to me. Some of their first questions were dismissive of my experience or almost blaming me. Which you know will shut off the conversation before it even starts, so I think a stigma and a stereotype that we still attach to people who come forward with sexual trauma, news, whatever it is, we tend to still see it as one way that this could have happened. When there’s a huge spectrum of unique experiences that everybody has.
Lance:
You mentioned how you felt this empathy and this guilt and protectiveness all wrapped up into one when it started to affect your loveed ones and your family, and it was always like, this isn't just me. How do you think that there's a way for us to do that for ourselves. To show up for ourselves and in the same way, I know a lot of people say it's hard to tell myself, I love myself, but I can tell everyone else.
Elizabeth:
I think there's always a way to touch that voice. And like you said, it can get so buried. I know that even at my lowest point, I was still here thinking that there has to be something beyond this in my life. I want to be able to look back at 45 and be like, I'm so glad that I did not take my life. I'm so glad I did not jump out of that car. So glad I didn't fall into the clear and available paths of addiction and things to just slowly hurt myself and poison myself, for something that I am gonna choose. So I think I still that that voice was there and it was almost like a kind of moment.
I had to start repeating those phrases to myself, like, I am enough. I am valuable. I am worthy of love. I am a testament of that. I never thought that I would be able to have a fulfilling relationship that was full of the right type of intimacy for me. Consent-based, kind, communicative, deeply active listening. I mean, I didn’t think that was available to me. So anybody who feels like they’re not ever gonna have that in life, that’s the trauma speaking. That’s not the truth. And if you just take some time to really do those deep dives, on your own,whether it’s with a journal, with a therapist, whatever it is that you need to do to stay well. This is what’s going to create the opportunity for your life to become what you really know that it can be.
Eli:
This is Unsilent. Thanks for listening. Today's episode is hosted and produced by me Eli Lawson, Lance Bordelon, John Panicucci, and the rest of the incredible NoStigmas marketing team. Special thanks to Elizabeth, for sharing your story this week and all the incredible work you've done for NoStigmas over the years. Thank you so much. To go beyond the show, connect with us on social media, or visit nostigmas.org to learn more about mental health topics. Please leave us a five star review and share with others wherever you listen to podcasts. We’d really appreciate it. New episodes of Unsilent come out every Wednesday at 2:00pm Eastern time. Finally, remember that whatever you're going through, you don't have to do it alone. See you next week.
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