EP. 12 (PART 1) - “Group Therapy: Releasing Shame" with NY Times Bestselling Author of "Group", Christie Tate. "Christie O.
Tate is a Chicago-based writer and essayist. Her work has been published in The New York Times, The Washington Post, The Chicago Tribune, Pithead Chapel, McSweeney’s, Motherwell, Entropy Magazine, A Perfect Wedding, Together.com, Brain, Child and others. Her debut memoir, Group, published in October 2020 was a Reese’s Book Club Pick and New York Times bestseller" (ChristieTate.com).
Lance talks with Christie about her years growing up battling disordered eating, overcoming shame, and living in recovery. She opens up about her experiences with group therapy, and how to this day, she continues to maintain her mental health and strength grounded in this practice. In our Season 1 finale, our conversation was so jam-packed, we are splitting it up into a 2-Part release! Be sure to check out Part 2 once it's released. We thank Christie for being a BOLD and VOCAL advocate and for sharing her story with us.
EP. 12 (PART 2) - “Group Therapy: Releasing Shame" with NY Times Bestselling Author of "Group", Christie Tate. "Christie O. Tate is a Chicago-based writer and essayist.
Her work has been published in The New York Times, The Washington Post, The Chicago Tribune, Pithead Chapel, McSweeney’s, Motherwell, Entropy Magazine, A Perfect Wedding, Together.com, Brain, Child and others. Her debut memoir, Group, published in October 2020 was a Reese’s Book Club Pick and New York Times bestseller." (ChristieTate.com).
Lance talks with Christie about her years growing up battling disordered eating, overcoming shame, and living in recovery. She opens up about her experiences with group therapy, and how to this day, she continues to maintain her mental health and strength grounded in this practice. In our Season 1 finale, our conversation was so jam-packed, we are splitting it up into a 2-Part release! Be sure to check out Part 1 as well. We thank Christie for being a BOLD and VOCAL advocate and for sharing her story with us. Be sure to visit nostigmas.org/unsilent to watch, listen to, and read all of our conversations this season. We are survivors, thrivers, advocates, and Allies. We see you. We love you. BE UNSILENT 💚
SPECIAL THANKS TO: Guest: Christie Tate Host: Lance Bordelon MEET THE TEAM Video Editor: John Panicucci Producer: Eli Lawson IG @elawsonlistens Marketing: Lance Bordelon & Maggie Seagraves Executive Producer: Jacob Moore IG @jacobmoore www.nostigmas.org
#grouptherapystories #christietate #GroupBook #reesesbookclub #bulimiarecovery #bulimiafighter #nostigmas #peersupport #ihavenostigmas #StressAwarenessMonth #mentalhealth #mentalhealthawareness #mentalhealthadvocate #mentalhealthsupport #mentalhealthstigma #mentalhealthstories #mentalhealthstoriesmatter #suicideprevention #mentalhealthallies #anxietyawareness #depressionawareness
SHOW NOTES:
Christie:
Instantly, for the first time in my life, I was talking to someone who had what I had, and was in a space where they wanted to get better, and she told me that she did get better.
Eli:
This is Unsilent, a Speak series from NoStigmas that champions mental health advocacy and challenges the stigmas that prevent people from getting the help they need. I'm Eli Lawson, a producer for the show. To end our first season, we’re going to be splitting Lance Bordelon’s conversation with New York Times best selling author, Christie Tate, into two parts. This week in part one, we’ll hear about Christy's family and how a lack of openness, among other factors, contributed to her bulimia and negative body image. If you want to learn more or contact us, visit nostigmas.org Don't face it alone. Be Unsilent.
This week's episode contains mentions of bulimia and suicidal idealization. While there's nothing explicit, it could be triggering for some. It's okay if you need to skip this one. Do what's right for you.
Lance:
Can you tell us a little bit about yourself and your background and your connection to the cause?
Christie:
Sure. So, I grew up in Dallas and I had a home life that was mostly stable, but some of the factors that impacted me, I understand now negatively, was, we were very Catholic. And I internalized a lot of messages about being tough and enjoying pain. I'm not even saying that the Catholic Church told me that, but when I'm seeing the agony of Christ and all these bloody things, I was like, oh, that's how you become a good person. That's how you are sanctified and justify yourself. Like, I was a pretty morbid kid and you throw that on there and it was like gas on a fire. And when I was in second grade, I remember praying at night, praying for the stigmata, which is super morbid. And I didn't tell anyone, I thought that's what we were supposed to be doing. So also, I was really, really into ballet, which is a problem because ballet is a pretty rigid art form and it certainly was in the 70s and 80s. Nobody knew how to talk to little girls about their bodies. No one was talking about shame. And I would just go there twice a week with my whole heart out on display. And I would be told, suck in your stomach. Could you lose weight? My ballet teacher when I was in seventh grade, so now I'm hitting puberty and I have a lot on my emotionally, and I'm not talking to anyone, there's no mental health support at this point. And she's like, couldn't you go on a diet where you just eat three eggs in the morning and three eggs at night? And that's it? And that was the person I loved and trusted the most in the world outside of my parents. So into this, I become bulimic and I'm extremely perfectionistic. There's some alcoholism. There's also recovery in my family, which is wonderful and probably saved me untold agony, but into addiction, I became my own sort of addict. I was bulimic and thank goodness when I got to college, I just hit bottom, probably because I saw my parent who's in recovery. I saw him go to meetings and I was like, well is there anything for those of us with eating problems? I got into a 12-step program for eating and it saved me. I mean, I don't know what would have happened to me if I'd kept binging and purging, that does not end well. And, it was wonderful to get the miracle of recovery, but there was still something else missing in me, or broken.I don't know the best words to say in all these conversations. I don't want to make it sound like- I don't want to use bad language. Language really, really matters, right?
Lance:
Right.
Christie:
The most neutral way I can say it is, I was missing a lot of skills. Because during skill acquisition years, I was binging, I was purging, I was crying in my room and had all these secrets. And so I became a young adult who didn't know how to have lasting relationships. And I was so sad about it. And I didn't think there was any hope. I just thought, okay, well I know I'm smart. So I'll go to law school and I will have a great career and I'll just try to work so much that I won't notice I have no friends and no family and no boyfriend and no children. That was gonna be my consolation prize. The problem with that, which is obvious-
Lance:
You couldn’t see it at the moment.
Christie:
Yeah, I was like, I'm kind of a genius, you know?
(Laughing)
Christie:
In the same way, when I first started purging, I was like, this is great. What's the downside? You know, a very naive, short-sighted solution to a problem. And I just developed suicidal ideation like my lifeforce, my recovery, something inside of me was like, please get help so you can have more. Don't do this. Don't do this. And I ended up going to see a therapist, which I didn't think I could afford, didn't think I liked. I didn't like him and I actually could afford him because it was group, which is 1/3 the cost of an individual session. The catch is you have to share your session with seven people.
Lance:
Yeah, obviously, the book is sort of why I wanted to talk to you, so we'll get to the group piece too because I've never experienced that I want to hear about that.
Christie:
Right so I'm in law school, I'm doing very well because I know how to do school. You don't have to talk to anybody. You just make good grades. When I started having this suicidal ideation people I knew from meetings were saying, you know what, you need more help. And I kept saying, well, the 12-step program is all I need. But I did need more help. And I was willing to check out this therapist, and it started this journey I'm still on. Two hours ago, I just had a group session, so I'm still there. I'm a person who stays for a long time when something works and it still seems to work for me. And I get a lot of questions from people like, why do you still go to therapy? When do you graduate? One of the conversations I think that is interesting to have about this and we may get to that which is, in this country, we go to therapy when there's an emergency and when the crisis has passed, we leave. And there's other ways to think of it, more like going to the gym. And I recognize there's a lot of barriers for a lot of people financial and time wise, and I definitely recognize that, but if nothing else, I have made a lot of people uncomfortable because I go to a lot of therapy still to this day even though my life is wonderful and stable. I still want the support because I think we all deserve scaffolding for these complex lives that we’re living.
What was the conversation lik ein your family growing up? You mentioned not really having social interactions or focusing only on one thing to stay focused. But did you have conversations about any of that?
Christie:
Yeah, every now and then. When I look back now, I can see I was trying to have these conversations and I was trying to get caught. I went to babysit one night, and this would have been in eighth grade, and I went to babysit at a family friends of my parents. And while I was there was binging and purging and I left a lot of evidence. Let's put it that way. And they called my parents like, we think that Christie was throwing up when she was here. And my parents called me into the living room. They wanted to know about this and I lied through my teeth. I don't know what you're talking about. That didn't happen. And that's denial. I know none of us have the skills to deal with something as serious as bulimia and whatever else was going on with me. And then it happened again at home. My mom found some evidence in the bathroom that something strange was happening in there, and I blamed it on our cat. And I have no grudge against my parents, but the truth is, we did not have the skills to have those conversations and so I could lie my way out of it and just say, no, it's nothing. It's the cat. That's absurd. My parents are very smart people, but that's how strong addiction is. That's how painful it is to address. You pull the thread of one person in the family’s illness, and everyone has to look at themselves and the whole system. Kids have eating disorders or people have addiction. It's a family system. I'm not a therapist, but I understand we were all interconnected. And for me to fall into crisis would have required all of us to do a lot of deep work we were not yet ready to do.
Eli:
If you or someone you know is experiencing a crisis, please call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 1-800-273-8255 or visit suicidepreventionlifeline.org for support via live chat. If you or someone you know is in immediate danger, please call 911. Other resources are linked in the show notes.
Christie:
I had a little bit of therapy when I was a kid, like two or three sessions, and then my experiences with my parents were like, you done? You good? And I knew the answer was supposed to be yes, even though I hadn't even gotten started. And one time I was like- it seemed like there's a lot of points in my childhood where I felt like I was reaching a crisis and I could feel it, you know you feel it inside of you. And I was scared and I remember saying something to my parents. And my mom said, you know, you could just decide to be okay. You could just decide to be okay. And it sounded like a dream, like I could? And so how I internalized that message was, this is mind over matter. Don't be weak or gross, and don't give in to this lower part of your nature that seems to be flailing about. Decide to be okay. And so I think I had to find recovery when I left the household, because it just wasn't something I could do in the system that I was in.
Lance:
Right. What was happening that took you to a point where you said you hit rock bottom?
Christie:
I think I was preoccupied with my body from a very young age, and it's a confluence of events right? I was into ballet, I put on a leotard and I saw how skinny other girls were. I was not, and again language is so scary, but the charts at the at the pediatrician would say that I was overweight. I was not fat, but I was overweight. And as a consequence, I don’t recall my pediatrician shaming me, but I remember feeling shame. And my mom, I remember, she would make lunch for me. And my dad and I were more of the portly ones in the family. We were fleshier. And everybody else trended toward this thin side. And so we would have a different lunch and there was a different kind of plate and there was this effort to control our eating. So that's part, I mean, eating and body image is a huge part of it, of course. But what I came to understand later was, I had stuffed all these feelings. Everything, I had stuffed everything. I was a little girl in Texas in the 80s and I was supposed to smile and be sweet and make people like me. As a consequence, I had years of rage, just stuffed down to my heels, then my knees. And an eating disorder isn't just about being thin. It's about all the repressed feelings and I was involved in a traumatic accident, right before high school where a friend of mine, we went to Hawaii and her dad drowned while we were there. I was already bulimic by the time we went to the beach, and her father died. But coming back, now I can point to a traumatic event. No one's going to dispute that was traumatic. But now I've got the pressure to come back and be okay. Like I remember I was really sad. This was two months after the accident, I'm in freshman trigonometry, having a very hard time. And I remember my mom was like, can't you just be okay? Like, she needed me to be okay. And I was not okay, but I knew how to play the part. So part of that was just like, Well, I'm gonna have to eat a ton. And then when I get tired of being fat, I'm gonna throw it up. And that’s juts how it went in my 14, 15 year-old brain. And then that's all a secret, so now I’ve added this secret onto that. And it's really hard to keep that kind of bulimia a secret. When you are eating that much I mean, people are going to notice if all the Teddy Grahams are gone. You know, the morning after Thanksgiving, there's no pie left. Where did the pie go? So, it was very stressful, all secrets are stressful and full of shame. And I got a job, so I had get a job to support my habbit. I got a job at a bakery. So now I’m the alcoholic who works at a bar, like, a bite of is a bite of that. And now when I think about that, it's just, little Christie was trying so hard to survive and her addiction was just wildly out in the open, but no one knew what to look for.
Lance:
Right. So many people that I've gotten to speak to, both on this series and just in this job, have just over and over and over said that, I don't feel seen. I didn't feel seen. I didn't feel heard. I didn't feel seen. That seems to be a common thread and it manifests in so many different ways. Diagnosed or not diagnosed or not something that's diagnoseable. But how, I guess just segwaying into your recovery and those steps that you've taken, when did you first feel seen? When did you first feel heard or was there a moment?
Christie:
Yeah, I mean, I had the very miraculous feeling the first time I went into a 12-step meeting and I went to a newcomers meeting. And it was like 30 minutes before the actual meeting, so it was me and just one other woman. She was not my age. She was not my size. She was not bulimic. But she was talking about the way that she ate and the shame she felt about it. And instantly, for the first time in my life, I was talking to someone who had what I had. And was in a space where they wanted to get better, and she's told me that she did get better. And even talking about it now, that's as close to ecstasy, like, the ecstatic feelings. There is just- I will never, ever, ever forget my awe at that first conversation. And I've probably had 1000s of conversations since. I've been on both sides of the conversation with someone hurting around food. I cannot believe the power of a story between two people who are suffering and witnessing each other. So I would say that very first recovery meeting was the first time I felt really seen and safe to say the things I've been hiding from the world for like 12 years. That's a long time.
Eli:
This is Unsilent Thank you for listening. Today's episode was hosted by Lance Bordelon and produced by me, Eli Lawson. Lance, John Panicucci, and the rest if theincredible NoStigmas marketing team. Special thanks to Christie Tate for taking the time to share her story with us. Next week, we’ll finish up the conversation in part two, the final episode of season one. To go beyond the show, connect with us on social media or visit nostigmas.org to learn more about mental health topics. Please leave us a five star review and share with others wherever you listen to podcasts. We'd really appreciate it. New episodes of Unsilent come out every Wednesday at 2pm Eastern time. Finally, remember that whatever you're going through, you don't have to do it alone. Be Unsilent. We’ll see you next week.
EPISODE 12: CHRISTIE (PART 2)
Christie:
I was scared of being seen, like your point. This is the dilemma of a person in mental health crisis. I was dying to be seen and terrified, so I did a lot of push-pull everywhere I went in my life. Like, see me, see me, and then it's like you turn around Christie's gone. I would just vaporize from situations.
Eli:
This is Unsilent, a Speak series from NoStigmas that champions mental health advocacy and challenges the stigmas that prevent people from getting the help they need. I'm Eli Lawson, a producer for the show. Last week, in part one of this two-part finale, we heard about New York Times best-selling author Christie Tate's family upbringing, and how a lack of openness among other factors contributed to her bulimia and negative body image. This week in part two, we're going to pick up Lance's conversation with Christie right where it left off. We'll hear about Christie's initial hesitation to join a group therapy session, but we'll see how that one group radically changed her life. If you want to learn more, or contact us, visit nostigmas.org. Don't face it alone. Be Unsilent.
This week's episode contains mentions of bulimia and suicidal idealization. While there's nothing explicit, it could be triggering for some. It's okay if you need to skip this one. Do what's right for you.
Lance:
What is group like? What is a group experience? I mean, did you have any kind of anxiety or skepticism up front and or was there anything that you were nervous about going into group?
Christie:
Yeah, I was terrified. Yes.100% I was terrified. Who was going to be there? I didn't know if they were going to be, like, scary criminals. I was scared of that. But I was also like, what if they're super boring, and their problems are just, Oh, I wish I had more money, and not because they were poor but just because they were wanting more money. What if they didn't share my values and didn't know crisis? I was really scared. I admit, until I went to group, I did not have the imagination to visualize, Oh, I would connect with these people even though I'd been in 12-step program for almost seven years by then. I couldn't picture who goes to group, pays this money to this wild man, and who is this going to be? My first group was a professionals group, and I was like, I don't even know what that means, professionals. It was anybody who needed a license to practice their profession. And I was a law student, so that qualified me because my job was going to be a lawyer. So I get in there and it's lawyers, dentists, and doctors, and I'm like, what? They just looked like straight laced people who would never known pain and they had little briefcases and I was scared of being seen, like your point. This is the dilemma of a person in mental health crisis. I was dying to be seen and terrified, so I did a lot of push-pull everywhere I went in my life. Like, see me, see me, and then it's like you turn around Christie's gone. I would just vaporize from situations. So it was scary, but I also was hungry for that.
Lance:
Yeah.
Christie:
And I really like people and I'm pretty extroverted. It doesn't mean an introverted person can't do group, but I think I was able to adapt quicker because I really did want to hear, and I was curious about these lives and why are you here. And there was another guy, a psychiatrist who started the same day that I did. So I kind of felt like I had a little buddy. I was a new kid and there was someone else there. And one thing that struck me from the very beginning about group was, there's nowhere to hide. There's all these eyes. There's these people
Lance:
I never thought about that.
Christie:
Yeah like they could see my body. When I crossed my legs, we were all talking and something got uncomfortable, and I crossed my legs, a gesture that I didn't pay any attention to. And everyone was staring at me. I'm like, What? They’re like, you just crossed your legs. I'm like, so what? They're like, that means you're feeling shame. It's like people are reading me. They're reading my body. I was being seen.
Lance:
And I never would have thought about that. That's so true.
Christie:
Yeah, it's a wonderful, terrible thing to be in a fishbowl and I have a lot of ambivalence about it even today. But on the whole, I think I'm better for tolerating my witnesses and letting myself be seen in all my mess. That is a gift. I haven't been abandoned yet, and I've been there 20 plus years. I have not been abandoned no matter how ugly and how stinky I feel or I am when l put my junk out into the group you know,
Eli:
If you or someone you know is experiencing a crisis, please call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 1-800-273-8255 or visit suicid preventionlifeline.org for support via live chat. If you or someone you know is in immediate danger, please call 911. Other resources are linked in the show notes.
Lance:
The experience in a group therapy is, you know, we all see representations of group therapy in the media. But when you're in that space and once you get past the the nerves and the getting to know the group and who they are, is there really an interaction between all of the people in the room? Or does it tend to happen between you and maybe the facilitator and then a couple of interjections? Or what's the communication style like, how does that work?
Christie:
Yeah, it actually varies widely within the group in my experience. There are some sessions where I spend a lot of time talking to Dr. Rosen. I mean, not a ton, but we may go back and forth in a conversation and then everybody's sitting quietly. That tends to be rarer, but it happens. I would say that happens like twice a year. Otherwise, it's people pinging off each other in the moment, so it's not like I come in and say, Oh, I had this memory about my mom. It's more like, hey, Patrice, when you cut me off five minutes ago, I felt super angry. And then Patrice has a reaction to that which is- it could be anything right? So now you're doing it in the moment, now Patrice is like my stand-in for my idea of my mom, but we're doing it right here, in the here and now, and then other people chime in. And they take her side or they take my side and they point things out. And my thing in group is I tend to be very defensive. I'm very defensive. I come to the world very full of fear and shame. And so my first reactions are going to be, Oh, I feel ashamed, so I'm going to be defensive. That's just a classic Christie M.O. I'm still unraveling that all these years later. And now there's a little space between getting feedback from someone and saying, Okay, I'm curious about myself instead of, oh, I'm a piece of shit. I think the best tool that group has given me is curiosity about myself and others, as opposed to pathologizing or criticizing or feeling criticized. Like, let's just look at this, let's slow down and look at what everybody's feeling and what it brings up, and how can I do this differently? Because if I can do it differently in group, I can do it definitely in my marriage and with my children and at work, and it's really transformative.
Lance:
Wow, did you see my jaw started to drop? Like I physically was like, what? My mind is- wow, yeah, I never thought about that. I never ever thought about that, because all of the talk therapy that I've experienced, sometimes wanting it sometimes just really not, it does feel like you are just recounting experiences. And then there's been so many sessions I remember, even recently, leaving like, I don't think I got anything out of that.
Christie:
Yeah.
Lance:
But I think I'm very deliverables-oriented. I need the plan. I need the steps. I need you to tell me, what do I do in this situation? So I think putting myself in that situation would be so good for me because I would be actually experiencing, the way you're describing it, experiencing the reactions. That resonates with me on so many levels, so many levels. But what I was saying was, what do we do with our friends and family? Because I believe, and I'm sure you believe, if we can just stop being overwhelmed by changing the world, let's just impact our micro community. Let's just impact our family and friends and school classmates and colleagues. What do we do with it? What are actionable steps that we can take to be advocates?
Christie:
I think the first thing, my instinct is, I need to do my own work. And I think before I can pass anything on to anybody else, children or adults, I need to be looking at my own shit. And there's plenty there. And the other phrase that came to my mind, which could mean different things for different people, but what I have noticed with my kids is sometimes I'll feel this pull to be up my daughter's ass about her friendships, or I'm like, Hm, what's going on there? Inevitably I need to be looking at my own friendships, and I'm projecting onto her troubled waters or whatever. And really doing my own work is- I think that would save the world. Like, for those of us who can see more clear, I don't know, I don't purport to be fully clear eyed, but-
Lance:
Depends on the day of the week, depends on the hour of the day.
(Laughing)
Christie:
Exactly. But I do feel very clear that children- we need to get our hands and comments off children's bodies, boys and girls. And I feel really clear about that. And I hope that I've empowered my children both to let people know that they are in charge of their own bodies. I'm not even talking about unwanted touchings or hugs or whatever but, you don't comment about my body. And I, as their parent, if I hear talk about that, I stand up for them. There's this concept in my head, I call it, I do my recovery out loud. It's not going to help my kids if I very secretly say like, Oh, I sure wish so-and-so wouldn't say that about my kids body. They deserve to be advocated for out loud in public. This is just like, we don't do that. I wouldn't let them slur my children or anybody else's children. You know, about what these children hear, who are silently suffering, and those of us- I consider it a duty. I can see the suffering, and I need to speak up. I need to have boundaries and create boundaries until they're old enough to have and hold up their own boundaries. We have to help them. Because you're exactly right, otherwise, how are we doing anything different? We’re not.
Lance:
Right. And that goes into, how you mentioned, not having the skill set to deal with certain things. And I think in my own family, that is so true. Nott having the skill set as a kid because it wasn't talked about or you never addressed it. That's why I said before, when you first told me about your childhood, I was like, man, I’m not smiling because it's like, wow, that was amazing. But I'm smiling because it's uncannily similar to what I’ve gone through and what I know even my cousins and my sister. Just growing up in a certain type of mentality and like a cone of silence. It's debilitating.
Christie:
It is debilitating. And it's very toxic in many situations. And for a while, I felt guilty, like, oh, I can't talk about that. It makes everybody look so bad. What I really have come to peace with is that I understand what my parents wanted- like don't talk about that, don't tell don't tell people that. That's a statement. That's fear. They were worried I was gonna get branded as a psycho. Or our family was. And it felt like there was so much social stigma, there was so much. It was like a social minefield. Like, we were trying to look good for the neighbors and for the church. And if we let our mess out, it's like you said, speaking of generations, the generations above us, everyone didn't have a therapist and they didn't use shame on a daily basis as a word in every sentence. You know, they weren't on the lookout for the for the toxic messages that have just been absorbed. And the message that my parents had was, if people knew the truth, we would all be ostracized, and that's no way to live.
Lance:
Right? To keep it in. Swallow it.
Christie:
Keep it in, yeah. I did an event in November 2020, and there was a physician there, she’s a psychiatrist and her name is Dr. Nina Vasan. And she said to us, the audience and to me, that there were three main reasons why people do not seek mental health treatment. And when they finally do, on average, it’s six years after the onset of the problem when they could have first sought help. And were like, what are the three reasons? She said, stigma, stigma, and stigma. Yeah, that's why people don’t. So your work here is tremendously important and transforming. You're giving people story. And maybe I'll listen to this with my kids or the people that I love that I see hurting who are younger or older. This is the work of transformation. So thank you for the platform.
Eli:
This is Unsilent. Thank you for listening. This two-part finale was hosted by Lance Bordelon, and produced by me, Eli Lawson, Lance, John Paniccuci, and the rest of the incredible NoStigmas marketing team. Special thanks to Christie for taking the time to share her story with us. And as we wrap up, thank you for being here. We hope that this first season was as impactful for you as it was for us. Every day advocates like you and me play such an important role in helping everyone get the care that they need. By speaking out, you are demonstrating invaluable courage. And by listening, you're helping us all in our mission to fight the stigmas that surround mental illness. So again, thank you. To go beyond the show, connect with us on social media or visit nostigmas.org to learn more about mental health topics. If this first season of Unsilent has helped you out in any way, please consider leaving us a five star review and share the show with others who might need it. We'd really appreciate it. We'd also love to hear from you. We're always looking for new topic ideas, guests, and general feedback. You can do that through our website, email, or social media. Finally, remember that whatever you're going through, you don't have to do it alone. Be Unsilent. That's it for season one. We'll see you soon.